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Jacob Clare (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 205.169.70.27
Posted on Wednesday, January 25, 2006 - 3:44 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I purchased four neodymium magnets, 9 nickel plated steel balls and have tried the experiment. unfortunately when the initial ball hits the magnet the rest of the balls won't go anywhere. does it have something to do with the polarity of the magnets? just when i thought I had it figured out the bearings weren't propelled at any incredible speed at all, it simply rolled off the ruler.
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Senior Member
Username: Sfield

Post Number: 960
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 7:20 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you purchased the magnets and balls from our store, then you have
probably not aligned all the north poles towards the target. You could
also have problems if you are doing it on a steel table. Try wood.

If you did not get your magnets and balls from us, other problems could
afflict you. The balls and magnets may not be matched in mass. The magnets
may not be 50 MegaGaussOersteds in strength. The steel balls might not be
as magnetic as ours.
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Jacob clare (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 205.169.70.27
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 3:36 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

unfortunately i did buy the magnets and balls from a different place, except the ones i purchased are covered in rubber-plastic mix,with nickel coating and are 10mm^3. the nickel plated steel bearings are at a 1/2inch diameter. the magnets are rated at about 48N.
As for the poles, well i tried that. using small compasses at 10mm in diameter, i placed the magnets on the north poles pointing down the ruler. when this happened there was still no transfer of energy to the other bearings. the only way i could get them to work was to place their neutral sides down the ruler (if that makes any sense) where the positive and negative were perpendicular to the ruler.
did the bearings have to be magnetized too? if not then what formulas did you use to create this effect? i understand the energy equation KE=1/2mv^2, but are there any magnatism rules or equations that i need to know about? I've only read a little on the gauss rule and don't completely understand how this sync's up with that. i'm almost into the magnets chapter and i'm curious about what to look foward to.
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Senior Member
Username: Sfield

Post Number: 961
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 7:21 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

So you have several things going against you.

The poles really need to be pointed in the direction of travel.
This is very important. The balls are attracted to the poles.

The balls should be matched to the magnets in mass. They don't need
to be exact, but if they differ much the energy is simply reflected,
like hitting a cannonball with a BB. It doesn't move the cannonball
much, and the BB just bounces off, without transferring much momentum
at all.

Any soft coating on the magnets is a bad idea. It will simply absorb
energy, and prevent the ball from getting closer to the magnet. Most of
the force is generated in the last fractions of a millimeter as the ball
gets close to the magnet, since the attraction scales with the third power
of distance.

Our magnets are N50. You are losing 4 percent right off the bat.

Nickel coatings are brittle and flake off when the balls hit, allowing
the sintered NIB to oxidize quickly and powder away. Gold is soft, and
holds up to being hammered.

Any ferromagnetic material in a magnetic field will become a temporary
magnet. This is one way of looking at why iron is attracted to a magnet.
Another way of looking at it is that it takes less energy if the field
is going through iron than it does for air, and the closer the iron gets
to the magnet, the more of the field can go though the iron, so it is a
lower energy state, and things move towards lower energy states.

If you want one that works, ours are guaranteed.
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Jacob Clare (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 67.174.122.187
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 12:24 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

thanks for the advice. i'll take that into consideration when i purchase more magnets. right now i'm broke so i'll have to put off the research until the funding becomes available. I'd still like to know how you came up with this project. I'd still like to know how the magnets can actually add together the KE's . i understand how it conserves the energy in the system but i don't understand how it does. take for instance the pendulum: you lift one ball which creates the PE, the energy transfers through the balls and into the one on the last turning into KE (my terms are jacked up but you get the idea). the one on the end though goes only as fast as the one that was lifted. how does a magnet add these forces together? Are there other materials that can add the KE?
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Senior Member
Username: Sfield

Post Number: 966
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 12:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Consider a road that starts in the mountains.
You coast down to a plateau, gaining speed.
You coast across the plateau.
You then go downhill again, picking up more speed.
You reach another plateau, and coast across.

You can do this as much as you like, until you are sitting at the bottom of
the ocean. With each hill you go down, you gain kinetic energy, and lose
the potential energy you had to begin with.
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Jacob Clare (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 205.169.70.27
Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 3:46 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

but that doesn't explain the gain in KE. if i rolled a ball down a ramp, the ramp has to have enough PE to get it over the first hill. due to all the wasted energy between those points the ball is going to loose it's speed and will have a hard time continueing over the next three or four hills. once that ball is dropped it doesn't gain energy over those hills, there has to be a force at the tops of those hills to make it go faster. those magnets have to provide some type of force on those balls as they go through, if they didn't the balls would simply just roll across the ruler with no additional velocity. So if you consider that when the magnets are arranged in that north to south pattern, those field tend to want to push forward:

o>>>S(Magnet)N>>o>>>S(magnet)N>>>>>>>o

Thus creating that extra force at the end. This means that its not just about conservation of energy but it's also about the addition of magnetic forces to those balls. What i wanted to know was what that equation was to figure out the force those magnets are Pushing-Pulling. As for that car over the plateau, he'd have to step on the gas or something to provide him with that extra energy at the end of the journey. granted he gains that energy at the bottom of the hill but he only has enough to get him to the top of the other. there has to be something else to get him to go faster at the end of the plateau's.
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Senior Member
Username: Sfield

Post Number: 968
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 9:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

There is only one mountain, no hills.
He goes downhill, then level, then downhill, then level, etc.

There is no magic here. The first magnet attracts the ball.
When it hits, it releases the second ball, which is attracted
to the second magnet, and so on.

Each magnet's attraction adds speed to the ball.
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Jacob Clare (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 67.174.122.187
Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 4:30 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Exactly! you didn't make that clear when you mentioned it in your project. the magnets give the balls an added force that is obvious on the other side. what i want to know is how you calculate that force of attraction between the magnets.
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Jacob Clare (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 67.174.122.187
Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 3:41 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

exactly, the ball might have an initial velocity but the magnets attractions along with the sphere's attraction that adds to the final velocity.
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matthew wettstein (Mewetty)
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Username: Mewetty

Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 5, 2007 - 12:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have a gauss rifle that I purchased and the balls seem to want to jump to a either the top or one of the sides of the magnet. Is there a way to tell which side of the magnet is the north pole?
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Senior Member
Username: Sfield

Post Number: 1677
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, April 5, 2007 - 1:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The balls prefer to sit at the poles.
So you now know where the poles are, you just don't know which is north
and which is south. But since the gauss rifle works in either direction,
all you have to know is whether the magnets are all in the same direction
(i.e. all norths point right).

This you can do by seeing if the magnets are attracting or repelling.

Of course a compass will also tell you all of that.
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matthew wettstein (Mewetty)
New member
Username: Mewetty

Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2007
Posted on Thursday, April 5, 2007 - 5:02 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is there something that works better than tape to hold the magnets on the ruler? They keep moving, and I have to keep redoing the tape.

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