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Anonymous
Posted on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 - 10:28 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How about using Leyden Jars for use with the Van De Graff generator. I have built lots of leyden jars out of old cream cheese tubs and they are fun to play with. I haven't built a VDG yet, so I have used a PVC pipe and a ktichen paper towel to charge the jars(which works surprisingly well). I haven't tried this, but I do beleive that the Leyden Jars can be used to make longer sparks with the VDG.
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Anonymous
Posted on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 - 10:32 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Today, I also made a new type of capacitor that is made out of a jewel case for a cd instead of a jar or a tub. It isn't any more powerful, but they take up less space.
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RC
Posted on Saturday, February 7, 2004 - 8:59 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Cool. I used a leyden jar in place of a peizoelectric lighter for the hydrogen bomb project.
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Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, February 8, 2004 - 9:53 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Yes! I finally built the VDG! I tested it with two Leyden Jars connected afrter I got it working. The sparks get longer, but only to a certain point, but the power of the sparks are increadable. It charged so much that when I touched the can, I felt a tremendous shock throughout my entire body! I'm wondering, when the energy is released through the spark, do the Leyden Jars make the voltage higher? It seems like it to me.

Here is a neat modification I made to the VDG; I made up another can which was placed on another PVC rod. I glued it to the wooden base and connected the new can to ground. Now if I put the can close enough to the can on the generator itself, you will get constant sparkage! Like at those lightning shows at some museums.
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Posted on Sunday, February 8, 2004 - 10:45 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Excellent!

The Leyden Jar is a capacitor.
It stores charge. It does not increase the voltage.
The VDG by itself cannot generate a lot of current.
The capacitor stores up the charge over time.
When you touched it, all of that charge was delivered all at once.

Charge is the number of electrons (or the lack of electrons)
relative to ground. Current is the flow of charge per second.
Voltage is the pressure that pushes the electrons.

The VDG generates a lot of voltage.
It can only push a small number of electrons per second.
But when you push those electrons into the capacitor over
many seconds, the capacitor stores them. It can deliver all of
them in a very short time. Thus the charged capacitor can
deliver much more current than the VDG can.

It's volts that jolts, but mills that kills.
The VDG has a lot of volts, but not a lot of current (measured
in milliamps, or "mills" for short). The capacitor can deliver
quite a lot of current, as you discovered. A larger Leyden Jar
can develop lethal currents. Be careful.
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Anonymous
Posted on Monday, February 9, 2004 - 3:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

That's interesting. Does this mean that by also adding resistance, you can make longer sparks (and also make the current less dangerous)? I saw something on the internet called a "Marx" generator, which was an array of capacitors and resistors with some spark gaps. It created amazing and extremely long sparks. I was figuring that if you do a similar sort of thing with the leyden jars and add some resistors, would that have a similar effect with the VDG? Therefore having longer sparks?
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Anonymous
Posted on Monday, February 9, 2004 - 3:58 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Here is a schematic of a Marx Generator.

http://www.ee.ualberta.ca/~schmaus/elect/marxgen.jpg
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kwigibow
Posted on Thursday, March 4, 2004 - 8:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am planning on building a Jacob's Ladder.
To my knowledge, you need about 10kV and 1 milliamps.
How can I measure how many mills that my capacitor is charging?
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Anonymous
Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 6:39 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

maybe you could try an electrometer?
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Posted on Friday, March 12, 2004 - 10:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

One way would be to measure how long it takes to charge a capacitor
to a certain voltage. This time will vary with the current.

But the easiest way to really answer your question is to simply
put two wires vertically next to one another, with a small gap
at the bottom and a slightly large gap at the top. Then see if
you get a spark, and if the spark heats the air enough to cause
the arc to rise. That's all there is to a Jacob's Ladder anyway,
and you already have the power supply or you wouldn't be asking.
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kwigibow
Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 5:09 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I have built the VDG, but would that have the power?
I found a little info on Jacob's Ladders and some people use neon sign transformers. I will try to make a larger capacitor and see if that helps and if not, I'll try the transformer.
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Posted on Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 7:48 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Use the transformer.
The VDG will not generate enough current.
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Anonymous
Posted on Sunday, August 1, 2004 - 5:20 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Can i use teflon band and rubber(V-Belt) for lower roller and belt?
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Posted on Sunday, August 1, 2004 - 3:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Sounds fine to me.
Make sure the rubber is not conductive (most black
rubber is black because they add carbon so it will
be conductive and not create static electricity.
This would not work in a VDG.)
Some conductive rubbers look like insulators to an
ohmmeter, but even a million ohms of resistance is
too conductive.
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Frank Reiser
Posted on Saturday, September 25, 2004 - 4:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I built a Leyden jar from five 10 L plastic buckets. The jar stands about 1 m high, and has a diameter of about 0.5 m. I takes six minutes for the jar to fully charge from a 500 kV Van de Graaff generator. The spark is about 0.3 m long, violet white and as loud as a shot gun. Even after discharge, this beast hisses like a snake for six days--I don't dare to touch it! In fact, this garbage bucket-sized jar is so powerful, I have not played with it since I bulit it four years ago!
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sciman
Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 7:50 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

i am going to build a layden jar out of a wrapping paper tube and aluminum foil.im not sure if it will discharge when another spark is put to it. that is the problem.can somebody help me?
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marusushi
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Posted on Monday, December 27, 2004 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I don't think that a wrapping paper tube would make a good jar. But, I have never tried that. Try using a tupperware container.
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Ken Vadas Kenny Vadas
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Posted on Tuesday, December 28, 2004 - 5:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

This is a new option for DB267843
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Reed St. James
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Posted on Wednesday, March 2, 2005 - 4:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello genital men. I am wondering, can the power contained in a charged Leyden Jar be somehow convert in to usable energy. For example, to run and electric motor, or an electric gate located in the middle of nowhere? I have recently constructed a “Pico Turbine” it works fairly really well. However, it has a limited power. So, could one harness the power generated in a laden jar similar to a solar panel or a DC wind generator? By the way, what is a Marx Generator? What can it do?
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lysdexia
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Posted on Sunday, March 6, 2005 - 4:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Do you have Tourette's Syndrome?
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Jeffrey
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Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 9:27 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hello,

I found instruction on the internet on how to make a Leyden jar. It is made from a film canister and has aluminum foil on the inside and outside. If I do the same, but use use say a waterbottle, I will get a bigger spark right?

thanks,

-Jeff-
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Kyle O.
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Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 10:13 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

About the Marx Generator, they work very well. They take high voltage, and raise it even higher. I use a 5000v neon sign transformer, and it makes sparks about 2 inches long. It does not give out a continuous amount of voltage, but is strong enough to burn holes in paper. About the water bottle, yes, you will get a bigger spark. I made one from a CoolWhip container, and it does a pretty good job. I normally just stick with the film canisters. I had to put two resistors in each section because the original value was to high.

Marx Generator
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Kyle O.
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Posted on Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 10:14 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

srry for the large picture; i couldn't scale it down...
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Tristan
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Posted on Tuesday, April 5, 2005 - 6:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi. I was wondering. I have been trying to make a Van de graaf generator for a while now, And tried several different designs, Including the one on this website and I still can't get one to work. I have tried all the different things they say to do and I still can't get it to work. I have followed each design step-by-step and not step-by-step.
Anyone with an Idea or Design please contact me. I would be very much obliqued.
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Curio
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Posted on Monday, June 6, 2005 - 1:01 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Has anyone tried using a wine glass filled with water instead of alumminum foil? Does this work better? We built a Layden Jar using a wine bottle, water, cork, and paperclip but have tried charging it and it seems to hold an endless amount of charg. Are we to be carfull when it discharges?
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Senior Member
Username: Sfield

Post Number: 473
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Monday, June 6, 2005 - 1:10 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How are you concluding that it holds an endless amount of charge?
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Micheal Oligavalie (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 210.55.230.123
Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 4:12 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

aah yes the layden jar an extremely interesting invention is it not?
i was conducting a field experiment when low and behold a layden jar popped up from rite underneath me.
i was astountded this was a discovery that would make its way to the history books!!! i then decided to use this electrical charge to make a VDG generator!! o my lord this was an exciting experience i accidentally bumped the generator with my smallest finger and the electricty travelled from the highest hair on my head right down to my tinyist phalangie!! you should all try this sometime its invigorating!!

Prof. Micheal Oligavalie
Head Of Scientific discoverys department
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anon banon (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 210.55.230.123
Posted on Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 4:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

how du u mke 1?
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Angus Chalmers (Fungus)
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Username: Fungus

Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 3:19 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

What I sometimes use for a high voltage source is the transformer from inside a lightning ball thing( them globe things that follow your hands movement). It only has one wire coming out of it so it goes to ground. It makes sparks continously and I might try a Leyden jar to boost the sparks. It'd probably make it even more dangerous at around 8,000 volts already and it hurts so much you can get tiny burns from the sparks. It even goes through plastic wire insulation and can burn paper easily. It works off a 12v supply.
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apollo6470 (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 12.214.202.226
Posted on Wednesday, January 11, 2006 - 4:27 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hi

I made a couple Leydon jars and charged them using a static generator that I created. I get bright blue sparks that make a lod crack, but they are only an inch or so long. What is the key to getting huge sparks. And also when is a leydon jar too powerful to be disharged by a human (when will it floor you).
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Alexander N Roberts (Whoo_mythbusters)
Intermediate Member
Username: Whoo_mythbusters

Post Number: 35
Registered: 9-2005
Posted on Friday, January 13, 2006 - 9:05 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

If you are using static to charge it never the static you create will not have enought amps to harm you ....
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Senior Member
Username: Sfield

Post Number: 916
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 12:49 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Someone clearly doesn't understand the whole point of collecting
the high voltage charge over a long period and then releasing it
all at once. This is what capacitors (Leyden jar is the old word
for capacitor) do. The current that results can indeed be fatal.
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justine aquino (Mnado)
Advanced Member
Username: Mnado

Post Number: 91
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 5:33 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

tips:the smoother,spherecal,larger VDS's produces high amounts of voltage i tried using and aluminum plate,and made two semi-spheres connected it together,then made a hole 4 inches in diameter,instead of the small rubber band i used the one inch wide rubber band(used in sling shots)and melted the edges to make a band,then i used an electric fan motor for the motor,and creates a 5 inch non lethal spark i made one(like on mythbusters)and its non dangerous,..but it shock will make your fingers straighten when you touch it
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justine aquino (Mnado)
Advanced Member
Username: Mnado

Post Number: 92
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 5:40 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

and about that marx generator i bought a toy called shock tank its like a laser tag game then when you shot the enemy's back it will give 18,000 volts(same as the piezo electric igniter)then you can also set it to 24,000 volts which will make you let go of the controller,and i bought another toy called juicy fruit shocker,when you pull the gum out it will give 20,000 volts but when you get use to it you will be able to grab hold to it for as long as you want runned by 3 1.5 lithium cells...
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justine aquino (Mnado)
Advanced Member
Username: Mnado

Post Number: 93
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 5:43 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

can i ask a question to that marx generator?what kind of capacitors and resistor is used?and what
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justine aquino (Mnado)
Advanced Member
Username: Mnado

Post Number: 94
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 5:56 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

how many volts did you use to make the marx generator work?can i make a portable one runned by batteries?pls reply asap
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Joshua Martin (Mr_)
Intermediate Member
Username: Mr_

Post Number: 21
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Saturday, February 4, 2006 - 3:15 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Where did you get the capacitors and resistors from ??????
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Joshua Francis Martin (Joshua_martin)
New member
Username: Joshua_martin

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 10:02 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

a basic magnetic motor design that could be put into a computer program and redefined.
5 evenly spread lines coming out from the center each tipped with one poled magnet either south, north. then 4 double poled outer magnets shapely curved so the center pieces attracts to the outer magnets then repelled again not being able to stop making a constant motion.
Joshua martin
Western Australia, Mandurah
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Kasper Emil Feld (Magnetfeld)
Intermediate Member
Username: Magnetfeld

Post Number: 27
Registered: 11-2007
Posted on Thursday, January 3, 2008 - 6:05 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

WTF?

That doesn't make any sence, and has nothing to do with the topic.
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Senior Member
Username: Sfield

Post Number: 1818
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Sunday, January 6, 2008 - 2:55 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Besides, it obviously would not work.
Not only would it violate the laws of thermodynamics,
but he'd have to find five magnetic monopoles in order
to build it.
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Joshua Francis Martin (Joshua_martin)
New member
Username: Joshua_martin

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2007
Posted on Sunday, January 27, 2008 - 8:04 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

dont know how this comment got into leyden jars

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