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Anonymous
Posted on Friday, October 8, 2004 - 5:34 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How can I make Hydrogen gas and then isolate it so it isnt mixed with any other gases while keepingit under pressure?
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Andrew
Posted on Friday, October 8, 2004 - 11:56 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

How about our good friend electrolysis? Try an internet search on that. And, of course, see this and this page.
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Jacob (Jacob)
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Username: Jacob

Post Number: 1
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 7:57 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I know how to build the electrolysis devices but both gases go to the same conector, is it because I am using DC power and not AC?
If any one has a diagram of the compression things used to liquify gases please e-mail or something.

(Message edited by Jacob on May 18, 2005)
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Senior Member
Username: Sfield

Post Number: 416
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 8:00 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

You have that backwards.
Alternating current will produce hydrogen half the time, and oxygen the other half.
Direct current will product hydrogen from one electrode, and oxygen from the other.
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Jacob F. (Jacob)
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Username: Jacob

Post Number: 3
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Wednesday, May 18, 2005 - 8:15 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Everytime I trie Direct all the gas comes from one electrode, I have only used 9-volts and a solar car charger to power it though. I might be wrong. By the way why does the water get all nasty and orange after I run it for a while?
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
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Username: Sfield

Post Number: 417
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 12:47 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Use pure water, with just a little vinegar in it, and carbon rods for
the electrodes, so they won't react with the oxygen. Whatever you are
using is probably reacting with the oxygen instead of letting it rise
out of the water. From the sounds of it, you might be using iron electrodes.
Don't do that.
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Jacob F. (Jacob)
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Username: Jacob

Post Number: 4
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 12:55 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Actually I was using galvanized screws as electrodes.
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
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Username: Sfield

Post Number: 427
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 2:18 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The zinc was quickly removed and you were using iron as the electrodes.
The zinc is there to protect the iron by sacrificing itself.
It died a noble death in vain.
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Jacob F. (Jacob)
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Username: Jacob

Post Number: 5
Registered: 5-2005
Posted on Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 3:57 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I tried carbon rods, pieces of pencil lead actually, and it solved my problems. Thanks for the tip. Now I can construct a larger machine since I won't need to clean it out and replace the elecrodes constantly.
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Andrew W. Hohol III
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Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 12:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

When using electrolysis,what is the weight ratio of Oxygen produced to Hydrogen?
What is the volume ratio at equal stp?
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
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Username: Sfield

Post Number: 506
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2005 - 2:29 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Assuming that the entire volume of water has been consumed,
so that no gas remains dissolved in the water, the weight of
each gas will be the molecular weight of the substance times
the number of molecules.

There are two atoms of hydrogen and one of oxygen, so two molecules
of water will produce one molecule of oxygen and two molecules of
hydrogen. The atomic weight of hydrogen is about 1, and the atomic
weight of oxygen is about 8, and both molecules are diatomic, so
the ratio by weight will be 1 to 4 (4 hydrogen atoms of weight 1
each, to 2 oxygen atoms of weight 8 each, or 4 to 16, or 1 to 4).

The volume of a gas is proportional to the number of molecules of
the gas. Since there are two molecules of hydrogen for every one
molecule of oxygen, the volume of the hydrogen will be twice that of
the oxygen.

Be aware that your teacher knows about this web site, so it is not
the best place to ask for homework answers when your grade depends
on original research.
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Jake (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 72.235.129.42
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 9:08 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Is the electrolysis gas oxygen and hydrogen a very dangerous mix ?
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
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Username: Sfield

Post Number: 840
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Friday, December 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

As dangerous as hydrogen and oxygen get.
It is explosive, and after that, you could drown in it.
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mkg (Unregistered Guest)
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Posted From: 203.101.123.190
Posted on Monday, January 23, 2006 - 4:01 am:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

what is the volume to weight ratio of hydrogen??
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pip (Cowtipz88)
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Username: Cowtipz88

Post Number: 1
Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 21, 2006 - 10:42 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

Hey guys i am doing a project where i am making a hydrogen powered gun and a system that gets me the gas... well just look for your self.

Hydrogen Fuel Cell(Make the Hydrogen and Oxygen)
image/bmpHydrogen Fuel Cell
Hydrogen Full Cell.bmp (966.3 k)


Holding Area (Where the gas goes until needed)
image/bmpHolding Area
Holding Area.bmp (993.3 k)


Pressurazation (I do this to later for the gun and pack the gas in)
image/bmpPressurazation
Pressurazation.bmp (886.8 k)


Gas Pods (Easy for transfortation)
image/bmpGas Pods
Gas Pods.bmp (1021.9 k)


Hydro Gun (Thats what I call it)
image/bmpHydro Gun
Hydro Gun.bmp (1606.6 k)


And that is im hoping i will get a good bang since it is pure oxyggen and hydrogen mix in the gun)

So guys tell me what you think i will put real pics of it later.
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Dee Millir (H2believer)
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Username: H2believer

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 6:03 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

I am working with hydrogen generation in hopes to apply it to my automobile system. So far my problem is being able to generate enough to utilize and still not draw a large amount of electricity in doing so.
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Simon Quellen Field (Sfield)
Senior Member
Username: Sfield

Post Number: 1598
Registered: 12-2004
Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 7:18 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The amount of electrical energy needed to split water into hydrogen
and oxygen is easy to calculate. It takes two electrons to split a
water molecule. There are 6.2415 times 10 to the 18th electrons in a coulomb.
There are 6.02214199 times 10 to the 23rd molecules (called one mole) in 18
grams of water. Thus it takes about 48 thousand coulombs to split 18 grams of
water. To do that with 100 watts takes about 40 minutes. The total energy
needed is 237,130 joules (65 watt hours) for those 18 grams of water, and
you get one mole of hydrogen (2 grams) for that effort (22.4 liters).

When you burn that hydrogen in air, the most energy you could possibly get
is 237,130 joules. But an internal combustion engine gets perhaps 20%
efficiency, so you get maybe 50,000 joules (13 watt hours) of energy.

If you are using a battery in the car to make the hydrogen, you are MUCH
better off having the battery turn an electric motor at 85% efficiency.

So, we will assume that you are generating the hydrogen from the power
grid at home, and storing it in a big tank towed behind the car. A gallon
of gasoline has 130 million joules. A kilogram of hydrogen has 119 million
joules, about the same as a gallong of gas. At atmospheric pressure, that's
11,200 liters (about 3,000 gallons). At 1,000 psi, it's about 45 gallons,
but that is an awfully high pressure.

A kilogram of hydrogen costs you 33 kilowatt hours to produce. If you are
using 1,000 watts in the electrolizer, thats 33 hours to produce. Using
electricity at that rate costs about 15 cents per kilowatt hour at residential
rates, so the kilogram of hydrogen costs you about $5 if your electrolyzer
is 100% efficient, or twice that for something realistic.

So, in terms of gasoline, your energy is costing you about $10 per gallon.
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Dee Millir (H2believer)
New member
Username: H2believer

Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2006
Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 6:13 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

We are working with adding hydrogen to our fuel. We would like to know if adding hydrogen to our gasoline carburetor would give more efficient burning of the fuel. Right now were generating hydrogen and oxygen gases combined. No accidents yet, also will try using ammonia. We have also used ammonia mixed with baking soda and water, which seems to explode more safely. Are there any other materials I should be working with for more efficient electrodes, also, we are using baking soda for an electrolyte, is there something more effective? My system currently consists of 24 stainless steel plates connected in series in 5 separate cells using 12 volts. It seems to generate a little heat which is a big improvement over the previous single cell model which drew too much current producing waste heat, now we are only drawing only 10 amps for the same amount of gas.

Some of the current progress: http://img351.imageshack.us/img351/9964/h2gen081zk1.jpg
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Michael (Michaelt)
Senior Member
Username: Michaelt

Post Number: 138
Registered: 12-2005
Posted on Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 3:40 pm:   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPPrint Post   Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only)

The efficiency of burning a fuel depends on the amount of oxygen. By adding hydrogen to your gasoline, you are adding more fuel, not more oxygen. Hydrogen also burns somewhat explosively compared to gasoline-- a gasoline engine is designed such that the gasoline is not exploded, but burned (so you get a prolonged expansion of gases rather than an instantaneous expansion.) When your engine knocks and pings, it is due to the fuel mixture igniting too soon or igniting on time but expanding too quickly (hence some engines having specific octane requirements.)

Remember that when hydrogen burns, water is the ash. While the temperatures in an engine and the exhaust system can get quite high and prevent liquid water from collecting in the system, there may be instances where you will end up with water in the oil or in the exhaust system that wouldn't ordinarily be there, increasing the speed at which the motor oil breaks down or accelerating the rusting out of the exhaust system.

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