| Author | Message | ||
     Allan |
I fallowed all the directions but no results. for the bottom saft for the motor i used ann empty ink contanor in a pin and rapped it in electric tape and stuck the outer end through a hole i cut in the pipe. IT IS NOT GENERATING ANY STATIC ELECTRICTY. Help me! | ||
| Simon Quellen Field (Sfield) |
Some things to check: 1. Is the rubber band conductive at high voltage? Try replacing the rubber band with a different brand. Make sure the copper brushes are not touching the rubber band (the copper rubs off on the rubber, making it conductive). 2. Is the device clean? Small amounts of grease and dirt can be conductive at high voltage. Wipe all the plastic parts with rubbing alcohol. 3. Do you have a good ground connection? Connect the ground wire to a cold water pipe. 4. Are you measuring the output wrong? Try taping a long hair to the can, and see if it lifts above the can. If so, you are getting output. 5. Double check the construction and operation against the instructions. 6. Is the motor spinning rapidly? It needs to go fast. | ||
| riley eltrich |
THE VAN DE GRAFF GENERATOR WORKS WELL IF YOU USE A GLASS BEAD FOR THE UPPER ROLLER AND MAKE IT SO THE POP CAN ISN'T TOUCHING ANYTHING BESIDES THE WIRE. | ||
| Simon Quellen Field (Sfield) |
Where did you find the glass bead? | ||
| Anonymous |
I once used scotch tape on the top roller as a replacement for the glass tube. Worked pretty nicely. | ||
| Simon Quellen Field (sfield) New member Username: sfield Post Number: 238 Registered: 12-2004 |
Some email I got from a reader (at the bottom), and my reply: 1. Fraying the ends makes a lot of sharp points. This is useful for helping to spray the ions onto the rubber. 2. The type of nail does not matter. 3. Glass and rubber are far apart on the triboelectric series. This makes them excellent materials for the VDG. 4. Some things to check: a. Make sure everything is clean. Dirt and grease conduct electricity at these voltages. b. Try different rubber bands. Many conduct at these voltages. You want pure rubber, no coloring or additives. Try several brands. c. Make sure there are no sharp points -- they cause leakage. We want only the frayed ends of the wire to leak (onto the rubber band). d. Make sure the wire does not touch the rubber, or it will rub off and make the rubber conductive. 5. Make sure the wire inside the can makes electrical contact with the can. Coatings usually don't hurt at these voltages, but you can try making sure that the wire touches a place that is scraped clean. The outside of the can can remain painted without problems. 6. The rubber band should only be tight enough to stay in place. Any more is a waste of battery power. 7. Any kind of battery will do -- it has no effect on the generator. Just make sure the motor is turning as fast as it can without overheating. 8. I generally place the wire about 1/8th of an inch from the rubber. We have more information on our message board. Do a search for "rubber band" there, or look at some of these: "http://scitoys.com/board/messages/1/331.html" "http://scitoys.com/board/messages/7/271.html" "http://scitoys.com/board/messages/2/186.html" "http://scitoys.com/board/messages/1/160.html" > Dear Sir, > I'm an eighth grader doing a science project for school. I'm constructing a > Van De Graaf generator. I recently began constructing the generator using > the instructions I got off your website. The instructions are pretty clear > only, I have questions: > > *Does the wire need to be frayed at the ends? Does the type of wire used > matter? What kind of specific wire should be used? > > *Does the type of nail matter? Can it be aluminum? Will taping the ends of > the nail outside of the PVC coupler cause errors? > > *Is the glass tube from a fuse the right material for creating static > electricity? > > *I constructed the generator. It isn't working. What are some possible > errors causing this? Does the generator need time to create static > electricity before the static discharges jump out from the soda can? What > can I do to fix these errors? > > *The paint coating on the soda can doesn't conduct electricity. Is this > possibly causing errors? > If so, what can I do? > > *If the rubber band is tight, could this be straining the motor or other > parts of the generator? If so, what can be done? > > *Does the type of battery or batteries used affect the amount of static > electricity produced? What kind of battery or batteries do you recommend? > > *How close exactly does the wire need to be to the rubber band? > | ||
| justine aquino (Mnado) Intermediate Member Username: Mnado Post Number: 45 Registered: 12-2005 |
i placed a peice of wool to the nail (or at the center of the tube)and i didnt use a rubber band i used a layer of cling wrap(strips)this is better than the old version this can make spark for about two inchesand do you know the metal ball from a mouse i removed the rubber part an used that as the sphere great huh?the feeling of getting shocked is like sparking your finger with two piezo electric ignitors i drilled a about the ball i drilled a small hole small enough to fit the wire inside | ||
| Alexander N Roberts (Whoo_mythbusters) Intermediate Member Username: Whoo_mythbusters Post Number: 45 Registered: 9-2005 |
yea, the ball is smooth and has no edges so your corona leakage and discahrge would be lessened....but the bigger the spere the higher the voltage you can build up. I personaly would not use that small of a ball but its just my opinion | ||
| Paul Simon (Bl4h) Member Username: Bl4h Post Number: 18 Registered: 2-2006 |
I used a piece of small plastic tube for the bottom roller and a glass tube for the top. Unfortunately, I broke the glass piece when I took it out. What else can be used instead? Can aluminum be used? | ||
| Alexander N Roberts (Whoo_mythbusters) Advanced Member Username: Whoo_mythbusters Post Number: 52 Registered: 9-2005 |
Yes it could but youy would not get a very good charge on your "sphere" ...try to get another glass fuse tube or try some nylon roler or something....If you have some OLD toys that have moving features that might use gears and rollers take them apart (if you dont mind destroying them) and see if you can find something in there....I think in simons description of the prodject he has a list of materials you can use for the rollers but if not just search google for them ...you have to have something laying around your house.... | ||
| Paul Simon (Bl4h) Member Username: Bl4h Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2006 |
This is what I found on howstuffworks.com Positive items in the series are at the top, and negative items are at the bottom: Human hands (usually too moist, though) (Very positive) Rabbit Fur Glass Human hair Nylon Wool Fur Lead Silk Aluminum Paper Cotton Steel (Neutral) Wood Amber Hard rubber Nickel, Copper Brass, Silver Gold, Platinum Polyester Styrene (Styrofoam) Saran Wrap Polyurethane Polyethylene (like Scotch Tape) Polypropylene Vinyl (PVC) Silicon Teflon (Very negative) | ||
| Paul Simon (Bl4h) Member Username: Bl4h Post Number: 20 Registered: 2-2006 |
Aluminum works, just not as well. The sparks created using an aluminum roller were a whole lot smaller than using a glass one. On a scale of 1-10 between the two, using glass is 10 and using aluminum is 4. | ||
| Emilien Aka lordspidey (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 142.68.46.90 |
so if i use teflon tape instead of the rubber band i should get a better charge right! | ||
| don't ask (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 24.153.124.246 |
please help, my generator is not working, instead of using just glass at the top rollar i used metal spacers to keep the glass from breaking. will this cause a problem? please hurry!!!!!!!! I am doing this as a science fair project and need to get it working. | ||
| Jessica_Soilson (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 89.109.0.65 |
Simon, your previous post is very helpfull. My Van de Graaff generator does not work, and now its working very good. Huge thanks to you. And to others: read information above, and enjoy. ---- Jessica Soilson easy diet plan@low fat recipe.com | ||
| Guillermo P (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 88.15.124.251 |
Hi, I have been making the Van de Graff generator and the most difficult part for me is the glass tube. Does anyone know HOW to get the metal part of the fuse WITHOUT using a solder (because I don't have one) or a match? I have tried with a match, but it either breaks the glass, or turns it so dirty that it can't be used. Any help will be granted Guillermo P | ||
| Simon Quellen Field (Sfield) Senior Member Username: Sfield Post Number: 1807 Registered: 12-2004 |
You can buy glass tubing. But heating the end off the fuse is fairly simple. It sounds like the match is heating the glass unevenly. Perhaps you could place it in a toaster over, or even a real oven. Or by a soldering iron -- they're only a few dollars, and useful for other projects. | ||
| Anonymousss (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 212.71.32.88 |
i am situated in a place where nonconductive rubber band is impossible to find, i have tried every brand available, so plz could u tell me a replacement for the rubber band, plzz help CAN I USE A TEFLON COATED NAIL AS A ROLLER, AND NYLON AS A BELT?? ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED! tHANKS | ||
| Simon Quellen Field (Sfield) Senior Member Username: Sfield Post Number: 1817 Registered: 12-2004 |
Science is often about experimenting. Try things. If the belt and the roller are made of things on opposite ends of the triboelectric series, you should be fine. | ||
| Anonymousss (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 212.71.32.87 |
ok, i understand the part that the roller and the belt must be opposite, but how does the bottom roller effects the VDG? and how would i know that the coke or pepsi can whichever i am using is right, i mean its conductive or non conductive because i made a circuit placing the the can in the connection and the motor did not work so i covered the can with aluminium foil,then the connection was complete, is that right to cover the can with aluminium foil, the can should be conductive or not , does it increase the corona loss? all the cans are nonconductive outside and inside both? help me plzz | ||
| Simon Quellen Field (Sfield) Senior Member Username: Sfield Post Number: 1827 Registered: 12-2004 |
The bottom roller can be anything non-conducting. Sharp points are bad. Aluminum foil always has sharp points. You can use an ohmmeter to check the connection between the wire and the can -- some cans are coated inside with plastic, and scraping that off with some sandpaper on a stick will fix that (so will getting it real hot, but that damages the appearance of the can). | ||
| Anonymouss (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 212.71.32.88 |
and one more question can i use the rotatory high motor with the van de graaf and do the insulations of the cans matter or not??? plzzz help | ||
| Anonymouss (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 212.71.32.88 |
u somewhere said that the insulations doesnt matter!! the outside one i guess?? | ||
| Simon Quellen Field (Sfield) Senior Member Username: Sfield Post Number: 1829 Registered: 12-2004 |
Obviously, things that need to make contact can't be insulated, but things that need not to make contact must be. So make sure the wire going to the inside of the can is touching metal, and that the can is sitting on the insulating Styrofoam cup. The rotary high voltage motor works with the VDG. | ||
| Anonymouss (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 212.71.32.87 |
so u r saying tht the inside must not be insulated but the outside doesnt matter, right?? i did not get wht u r trying to say, i have made my vdg but the top can parts remain, i will finish it aftr ur reply, and is there any other method to ground the wire besides the cold water pipe and putting it inside the ground socket or putting it inside the patch of ground, i do not have the ground connection available by the electricity company in the ground socket and no cold or hot water pipe going outsdie! i have all the pipes made of PVC, can i ground with these pipes or is it necessary tht the pipe should be of metal and wht about the the flow of water should it be going inwards or outwards. i checked the insdie of the coke diet can, it was insulted so i am removing it off,there is an outside coating to, should i remove it or not for the vdg and in the rotatory high motor should i remove only the outside coating or both inside and outside plzz answer my question elaborately, so that i could understand. and one more thing i have read all of the forums regarding vdg , ur help will be appreciated!!! Thanks | ||
| Simon Quellen Field (Sfield) Senior Member Username: Sfield Post Number: 1833 Registered: 12-2004 |
All electrical systems need a ground connection for safety. You house or apartment has a ground connection somewhere. But the VDG will work without it. The ground just helps, especially in marginal situations, such as humid days, or dirty construction. We don't care about the water in the pipe. We just want some piece of metal that is stuck into the ground a few feet. | ||
| Anonymouss (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 212.71.32.88 |
thanks | ||
| Anonymouss (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 212.71.33.95 |
my vdg was a success! i have a question in mind, if i connect the ground wire inside another soda can and put it close to the first can, will there be a spark between them?? and wht do u think about making the upper roller by winding a nylon sewing thread on a satay stick, i will try this out by this weekend, just wanted your suggestion | ||
| Simon Quellen Field (Sfield) Senior Member Username: Sfield Post Number: 1839 Registered: 12-2004 |
Sounds like an easy experiment to try... Let us know. | ||
| Anonymouss (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 212.71.33.85 |
i just want to ask , can the glue gun or any other kind of glue be used in the making of rollers, r the glues conductive | ||
| Anonymouss (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 212.116.219.107 |
i was unable to make a nylon roller but i found out the way in which the glass tube doesnt break. i used a barbeque wood stick(easily available) in place of a nail and applied 12V through a transformer , the glass tube did not break. i was wondering if u could tell me abt the leyden jars except tht they r capacitors, i am thinking abt connecting 3 or 4 in paralel and see wht happens | ||
| wayne (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 209.94.194.175 |
instead of using a motor can the VDG be powered manually?? | ||
| Kasper Emil Feld (Magnetfeld) Intermediate Member Username: Magnetfeld Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2007 |
Sure | ||
| wayne (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 209.94.194.151 |
i dont have the motor as yet so i was thinking about turning it with my hand but i dont know how fast it has to spin | ||
| Kasper Emil Feld (Magnetfeld) Intermediate Member Username: Magnetfeld Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2007 |
The faster the better. Make a handle to turn it. It probably won't work if you simply pull the band. | ||
| Jay Fox (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 122.53.236.209 |
Does the rubber band have to rub on the glass tube or it should just roll the glass tube with it? | ||
| Theresa Simmons (Theresa) Advanced Member Username: Theresa Post Number: 66 Registered: 1-2008 |
The tube rolls. | ||
| Johnson (Johnacme) New member Username: Johnacme Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2009 |
I need help..I already follow every instruction above but my VDG generator didn't produce any spark. What should I do? | ||
| Matt (Mysterio) Junior Member Username: Mysterio Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2009 |
is it humid where you are (@johnson) | ||
| Johnson (Johnacme) New member Username: Johnacme Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2009 |
no...here's not humid... | ||
| Johnson (Johnacme) New member Username: Johnacme Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2009 |
Somebody please help me.. i need help immediately... this my school project so i need more troubleshooting to solve my problem... i already tried some kinds of rubber, checking the ground connection, dirt but make no difference... i don't know the motor spin fast enough or not? and one more question, Does the generator need time to create static electricity before the spark can be feel? Please somebody help me...! | ||
| Theresa Simmons (Theresa) Senior Member Username: Theresa Post Number: 135 Registered: 1-2008 |
First, stick a thin strip of tissue paper to the can with tape. Then run the generator. If the paper lifts away from the can, you are generating high voltage. Expecting a spark from a tiny device might be too tough a test for a beginner. Scaling the device up to use a much larger rubber band and a bigger motor would work better if you want sparks. | ||
| Johnson (Johnacme) Junior Member Username: Johnacme Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2009 |
If not lift away? what must i do then? i ever tried a paper(not tissue) but it doesn't move. I also tried hair but the result is same, nothing move | ||
| Johnson (Johnacme) Junior Member Username: Johnacme Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2009 |
@Theresa: i already tried but the tissue didn't float... what must I do then? | ||
| Matt (Mysterio) Junior Member Username: Mysterio Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2009 |
well, make sure everything is clean by putting it in alcohol, and then rinsing with water. use gloves while handling the inside parts | ||
| HuntersMommy (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 173.4.153.118 |
We have tried everything above. Parts are cleaned including the inside of coke can. What else could we do to try to make it work? | ||
| Theresa Simmons (Theresa) Senior Member Username: Theresa Post Number: 153 Registered: 1-2008 |
How fast is the motor turning? How many different types of rubber band did you try? What are you using for a ground connection? Did the tissue paper move at all when you turn on the motor? Did the strand of clean hair move at all? What are the top and bottom rollers made of in your device? Are the wires very close to, but not touching, the rubber band? Is the can free of any sharp points? What is the resistance between the outside of the can and the top wire? | ||
| John Knox (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 74.100.65.12 |
Hello, I need assistance about the lower pulley. I did not understand the instructions in the part where it stated "The shaft of the motor can be left bare, but the generator will work a little better if it is made fatter by wrapping tape around it, or (better) putting a plastic rod with a hole in the center onto the shaft to act as a pulley for the rubber band. " I was thinking that this meant that one should place the rubber band on the rod protruding from the DC motor but wouldnt the rubber band slip off from that tiny rod? Could you please make this more clear? Thanks. Your help is greatly appreciated. Please respond ASAP. | ||
| Theresa Simmons (Theresa) Senior Member Username: Theresa Post Number: 154 Registered: 1-2008 |
It seemed pretty clear to me. You can just use the shaft alone, or you can make a pulley using tape or a plastic rod. Either one will work fine. Did you try it, and find that yours is slipping off? Making the diameter of the shaft larger using tape or a plastic rod will increase the speed (and thus performance) of the VDG. | ||
| John Knox (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 74.100.65.12 |
Just to make myself clear, the shaft is the rod protruding from the motor in the inside right? And "plastic rod" seems vague to me, I mean could you give me an example of what this rod looks like? Furthermore, whats the purpose of the hole in the center of the rod? Lastly, how large do you recommend the diameter be? I am sorry if I am asking too many questions, but hopefully you could answer them all. Thanks again. | ||
| Theresa Simmons (Theresa) Senior Member Username: Theresa Post Number: 155 Registered: 1-2008 |
Yes, the shaft of the motor is the metal rod that the armature spins around. Another word for it is an axle, if it were to have wheels. Since it will work fine with just the shaft, and also work fine if you increase the diameter using tape, or a quarter inch thick plastic rod, it should be clear that the size of the rod is not critical. If the plastic rod did not have a hole in it for the shaft, then there would be no way for it to fit onto the shaft to increase the diameter of the shaft. The only purpose of the motor is to make the rubber band move around the glass tube at the top. The details of how you do that are not critical. Using a wooden or bamboo barbecue skewer as the axle for the glass tube is the best way to keep it from breaking. The original design, using a steel rod, turned out to be good for only a few weeks before the glass tube needed replacing. | ||
| John Knox (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 74.100.65.12 |
Thank you so much. And by steel rod you mean the nail? The service here is so fast =D | ||
| Theresa Simmons (Theresa) Senior Member Username: Theresa Post Number: 156 Registered: 1-2008 |
Yes. | ||
| John Knox (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 74.100.65.12 |
Does the size of the hole have to be as small as possible to place the electrical wires through? | ||
| Theresa Simmons (Theresa) Senior Member Username: Theresa Post Number: 157 Registered: 1-2008 |
No. | ||
| John Knox (Unregistered Guest) Unregistered guest Posted From: 74.100.65.12 |
So it doesn't make a difference if there are part of the holes showing on the pvc pipe since the wire is a bit small for the hole? | ||
| Theresa Simmons (Theresa) Senior Member Username: Theresa Post Number: 158 Registered: 1-2008 |
It's beginning to look like you did not read or understand the part of the project that explains why it works. Read that part again, and ask yourself how a hole in the side of the PVC pipe can possibly affect the transfer of charge to and from the rubber band. The pipe is just there to hold the two ends of the rubber band far enough apart that the band will rotate when the motor spins. It isn't airtight, and doesn't need to be. |
